Comments on: Glover Shipp Speaks Out on Quail Springs

By: Calling out Quail Springs: Judgmental, or loving?

Calling out Quail Springs: Judgmental, or loving? — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:29:14 +0000

[...] Following the prominent interview of Mark Henderson of Quail Springs church of Christ in The Oklahoman, leaders of many congregations in the Oklahoma and Texas area joined together in publicly marking Henderson in an advertisement printed in the same newspaper. For more background on this story, also see BrotherhoodNews.com for a story on the interview, and a follow-up by Glover Shipp. [...]

By: Doug

Doug — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 08:36:34 +0000

By referring to the fact that for a thousand years men did not introduce the instrument into worship Dr. Shipp is not offering that as a reason to continue the practice, rather he is pointing to the fact that those people understood and observed the simple teaching of the Bible on the matter. People today seem more concerned with their own enjoyment than they are with worshiping God.

By: Matt Clifton

Matt Clifton — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 23:07:49 +0000

Darin, thanks for your comment. We are generally not interested in in-depth doctrinal discussion on this news site. There are other places on the web for that. Please visit and read the FAQ on this site.

However, in response to your comment I’d just like to point out that the singing exemplified in the New Testament is not specifically one part or multi-part. It is “singing” that is commanded.

Does four-part harmony meet the description of “singing?” Yes, it does, and therefore four-part singing is within the biblical mandate.

Mechanical instruments of music do not meet the description of “singing,” and therefore they should be excluded in the worship in order to be sure we are practicing as God would have us.

By: Darin

Darin — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 22:56:48 +0000

Question.

Dr. Shipp also points out that the singing was monodic.

Why is no one concerned about that innovation? Is it because we are used to hearing four part harmony but not instruments? If the only measure is it sounds pretty to us that seems very human centered.

I only ask because Clement of Alexandria was equally concerned with both.

By: J. Randal Matheny

J. Randal Matheny — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 22:12:36 +0000

Marty, no problem at all. I sensed your good will. I’ve let several through that didn’t exactly fit the guidelines. We’re still working through this as well as we get geared up for the official launch, Lord permitting, later this month. What we’re really deleting are comments by judgmental progressives condemning us for being judgmental. :) Shame on us!

Overall, we’ve been gratified by the kind acceptance of the brethren. Thanks for your last comment and apology which wasn’t really necessary.

Blessings,

Randal

By: Marty Trujillo

Marty Trujillo — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:14:07 +0000

Dear Randall,

Sorry about not using the comment section correctly. I was just trying to help. I hope I was not coming across in the wrong fashion. That was not my attempt. I did not see guidelines till you pointed me to the f.a.q. section. Thank you brother and keep up the great work!

Because of Christ,

Marty Trujillo
Phil. 4:4!

By: J. Randal Matheny

J. Randal Matheny — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 20:18:31 +0000

We encourage everyone to consult the FAQ about doctrinal discussion. That’s not our purpose here, though we do have definite positions.

We have deleted a number of posts, mostly from progressives, who take potshots and exhibit emotionally intense language with pejorative terms. We’ll continue that practice. The ones above seem to be a bit more level-headed, but, again, we’re not looking for doctrinal discussion on the site.

But we are looking for general comments and even comments critical of specific things we’re doing are helpful, such as the comment on Thompson about who asked the big question in the Watergate hearings.

Thanks!

By: Marty Trujillo

Marty Trujillo — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 19:50:58 +0000

Dear Ty,

Your are right when you use the argument “that is they way we have always done it.” If that pertains to things that are expedient. How many times we worship on the first day of the week ect. We are not talking about that but are addressing the example given to us on how to worship. If you study 1 Cor. 11:2 through 16:4 you will find the five expressions or acts of worship. God did not leave us without instruction. All must be done decently and in order(1 Cor. 14:40b). There are traditions that cannot be changed according to the inspired Apostle Paul.

1 Cor 11:2 ¶ Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you.

2 Thess 2:15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word {of mouth} or by letter from us.

I will also add in the context of the Lord’s Supper instructions, our brother Pauld wrote:”I received from the Lord what I passed on to you.” (1 Cor. 11:23)

There are things that we must resist when it is found in God’s Word as lasting and abiding laws and commands. I did say laws because God has never left us without law even in the New Testament. There is no Biblical evidence for mechanical instruments in the worship of the New Testament. There is much evidence on what type of music is ordained an that is singing with the heart. It truly is very simple but men always try to bind and add what should not be bound or added. I am sure dear brother you would not add meat to the Lord’s Supper. Why? Because God’s Word gives us the example of unleaven bread and fruit of the vine. It is very striaght forward and simple to understand.

On the sports end, yes their are unorthodoxed players but that does not change the rules of the sport. If a guy dribbles the ball in basketball stangely and carries it he will be called for traveling. A rule or command of the game. If he does not do anything illegal then it is fine. (it constitutes expediency). I hope this helps dear brother and does not offend. If you or anyone would like to continue in study my email is rejoice410@aol.com

Because of Christ,

Marty Trujillo

By: Ty

Ty — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 00:38:47 +0000

I am a member of a Church of Christ and we do not use instruments in our weekly services. First of all, let me say that I’m not arguing for or against instruments in worship. However, I think your reasoning is very flawed. Correct me if I’m wrong, but your argument amounts to: “That’s the way we’ve always done it”. If you could prove to someone that there was no foundation for belief in a practice, yet they persisted only because they had always done it that way. And let’s say, so had their predecessors. You might shake your head and say it was ridiculous. Yet, that is exactly what you’ve done.
I’ve coached sports where an athlete had very unorthodox form that was detrimental to their performance. Trying to modify their form was a lot like pulling teeth. Why? Because we are creatures of habit and we are resistant to change (good or bad).

Again, I’m not saying that music does or doesn’t belong in church services. I AM saying that your reasoning is not sound at all (excuse the unintentional pun).

By: Dan M

Dan M — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:59:13 +0000

Wtom Hall asked about 1 Cor. 14:15 which says, “What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.” This text shows why instruments are not advisable. Of course it says nothing about playing instruments. But it also speaks of singing and praying in the spirit. In the Corinthian church the spiritual gifts that aided in singing and praying, thereby enabling the early church to cross language barriers along with tongue-speaking, had to follow the same rules placed on the prophets with tongues. Everything was done for edification and everything was done in order (vss. 26,40). To the unbeliever and ungifted (vs.16), singing or praying “in the spirit” amounted to making noise unless these things were interpreted to edify the mind. The application of this text for us is that anything that does not edify should not be included in the worship of God. Churches that include musical instruments in their worship cannot interpret the subjective pluck of a string and should therefore keep them silent. Instruments in worship amount to noise, like the sound of a gong or a cymbal.